Simple Neurofeedback Implementation?

[paulbrennan]

Hi James and all,

So now that the SDK is unsupported, Mind Monitor is certainly the best game in town with regard to Muse 3P software. There are others like Myndlift but the are quite expensive. However we can't do neurofeedback with Mind Monitor alone, we need to use the output to trigger sound events with some simple conditional logic attached (e.g. play sound when AF7 alpha is > AF8 alpha - a popular depression protocol). My question is, has anybody successfully implemented this to date with Mind Monitor in way that the average non-tech person could use? I kind of got it working myself with MAX but it's not a portable solution. Something that would work on an app or even a web app? I'm sure this has come up before on here.

Regards, paul

[paulbrennan]

To maybe refine the question a bit - I would like to give my therapy clients a way to use the Muse without using the native app. Mind Monitor is great, but the feedback is visual, so that's not going to work. I can send OSC to Ableton or something like that but this is far too complicated for most people to set up. So let's say I wanted to create a simple application that takes the OSC stream and plays a sound. What would be the simplest and most platform independent way? Most of my clients have at least a laptop, so I don't think it's necessary to create an app. A web page would be ideal but I'm getting the idea that streaming OSC through JavaScript is complicated due to security issues. Maybe a simple application in Java or similar? The point is I don't want it to be highly configurable by the end user - I would rather do the configuration myself and keep it very simple. Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome, and of course anything I do create would be open source, such as it is.

[James]

If you want to write your own code to do stuff with the Mind Monitor OSC data, I have an example starter app here: https://github.com/Enigma644/OSCMonitor

[paulbrennan]

Thanks James

[stotler]

Being able to graph progress may be a good way to work on long term change with the neuropsych theory mainstaying, and as a more complicated form of neurofeedback. Here are some examples of graphs that can be made from the CSV data in which can assist to visualize and understand frontal lobe dominancy in different brain-wave frequencies (and amidst and across different tasks).



Delta Frequency across lobes, while doing statistical analysis on a time limit.

[Malers]

Hello,

is there any information when Muse will support the SDK again?
Currently it is only downloadable in archived versions.
And, as I am really interested in using MuseLab, is there any Locaton where I can get it for Mac?

Thanks in advance for answers.

Best
Michael

[paulbrennan]

Michael, I got it from the Neuromore GitHub site. It seems to be just a link to a Google archive.

[paulbrennan]

However, I didn't have much luck getting it to work on Win 10 or MacOS with a 2016 Muse. I did get the 2014 to work.

[jfesenko]

Hi Paul.

I just got my Muse-S today and hooked up the MindMonitor OSC output (BTW, impressive work James!) to TouchDesigner. TouchDesigner is similar to MAX, but used primarily for visual processing, is free in its non-commercial edition (https://derivative.ca/download), and can also generate/process audio. Most importantly for your use case, end users can install a "player only" version (https://docs.derivative.ca/TouchPlayer) that will open up a TouchDesigner app in "perform" mode which won't allow them to access anything you don't want them to. I plan on using my Muse with TouchDesigner for some interactive visualization (and visual effects for performance pieces), but also for some home-grown neurofeedback that will require audio as well as visual output. So if you're interested in chatting offline we can see if there may be enough overlap to do a mini-collaboration.

Cheers,
John

[Cleveryaw]

Hey guys!

Did u find a solutions to use muse + mind monitor to snatch the data and for example listen to a a song that stops, as soon as a specific parameter hits the benchmark/threshold yet? Would love to be able to use it as a homegrown neurofeedback devise simple as that. Anyone knows a way to train specific freqz with mindmonitor? Weve got All the data. Just need a program, that uses the data as a source.

Greetz