Measuring Brain Fog

[sleepyhobbit]

Hi all. I have an auto-immune disorder (similar to "Long Covid") that causes brain fog. I was hoping that I might be able to use the "Muse S" headband plus the "Mind Monitor" app to see my brain fog in-action. I've read online that high Delta waves - while awake - could be a sign of brain fog. I've started recording some data with Mind Monitor and I've noticed that my Delta waves are, generally speaking, the highest values on the chart. But, I've also noticed a lot of variance from second-to-second. My Delta wave values can bounce up-and-down like a ping pong ball. I noticed there is another thread in this forum related to high Delta values and ADHD - that is super interesting. But, I'm wondering if anyone has noticed a connection between high Delta values and experiencing brain fog? And if you regularly have high Delta values, do they tend to bounce up-and-down on the chart (like an airplane being flown by a drunk toddler)? Disclaimer: I'm very new to this EEG space, so sorry if my questions are dumb.

[James]

High delta while awake is almost always caused by poor sensor connectivity. If your raw EEG is not a very flat line, then this is the case.

[sleepyhobbit]

That's very helpful feedback. Thanks James. I looked at the raw data (screenshot below) and I can keep the first few lines relatively stable (flat) as long as I don't blink, dart my eyes around, or take deep breaths. The fourth line (TP10) seems inconsistent, so perhaps the connection for that sensor is not strong enough.

Brainwaves.png (113.57 KiB) Viewed 3741 times

[James]

Correct, the first three look good, but the TP10 Right Ear sensor is not fitted correctly and will skew your results.

[sleepyhobbit]

Update: I ordered a replacement headband for my Muse S (Gen 2). It seems the (brand new) sensors were damaged (possibly oxidation). The signal quality is better now (especially over my ears). My Delta waves are still high, but sometimes they drop to moderate levels. It will be interesting to collect this data over the next couple weeks to see what I can learn.

[Transformation]

Hi,

actually you were onto something. ME/CFS is a chronic illness with 90% symptom overlap to long covid (jury is out whether it is actually the same, just some added stuff from that specific virus. ME/CFS is a relatively broad umbrella term for a disease with PEM that can have both viral and non-viral triggers, such as spine overstretch or neuroquinolone injury).

In ME/CFS patients, a study from 1996 found higher delta and lower beta waves.
(btw I am super sensitive to higher hertz ranges in the 30s even on sound and TENS devices, so I am working my way up from 5-8 htz to ranges that others consider relaxing (30-40hz) and I find way too unnerving).

Link:https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8879459/
Unfortunately I cannot access it, but I copy the summary made by peak brain institute below.

I am super interested how to use the mind monitor to evaluate those changes - and as I am a neurofeedback beginner, also how to devise a training plan to lower delta and increase beta.

"Patients with chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) appear to have a high and pronounced level of delta (<4 Hz) brainwave activity with regard to amplitude and abnormally low amplitude of beta (13-25 Hz) activity. This EEG pattern is typically correlated with symptoms of mental confusion, short-term memory loss, a “mental fog”, spatial disorientation, impairment in reasoning abilities, and the inability to follow and respond during conversation.

This controlled case report sought to demonstrate the efficacy of EEG neurofeedback on one CFS patient’s neurocognitive functioning and activity levels. At the beginning of the study, the patient reported feeling like she was in a “mental fog.” She also experienced feelings of mental confusion in a familiar area, difficulty with simple tasks like remembering names or recalling dates, as well as fatigue, chronic pain, and disturbed sleep.

EEG neurofeedback has been identified as a potential diagnostic and treatment protocol with chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) symptoms. The patient was assigned to a neurofeedback treatment protocol intended to increase beta activity and decrease delta activity. The treatment targeted the supplementary motor area, which has been identified as having good utility for training with CFS patients due to its executive role governing the flow of attention and perceptual processes.

Her training sessions proceeded as such: she sat in a comfortable chair in a quiet room, electrodes were adhered to her scalp and earlobes using a conducting paste, and she participated in a variety of mental training activities where increased beta activity was coupled with audio and visual rewards. Following a period of three months, in which the patient participated in four sessions per week, the patient exhibited notable improvement in neurocognitive activities and daily activities. She reported a decrease in the mental fog that had cognitively paralyzed her for two years. She additionally reported that the mental fog and confusion had dissipated and that her mental alertness, daily activity level, social involvement, amount of exercise, and quality of sleep all improved."

Hope this is helpful. Take care!

[sleepyhobbit]

Hi there "Transformation." Thank you for sharing such a thoughtful response. You were right to guess that I have ME/CFS. I've had it for 8 years and it's progressed from "mild" to "severe." Unfortunately, brain fog is one of the most frustrating symptoms, closely followed by PEM and everyday exhaustion. I did not know there are exercises to lower Delta Waves for ME/CFS patients. Thank you for sharing that information. I will have to do some research to learn more. I'm guessing you might also have ME/CFS, and I'm hoping your efforts to learn more about your brain are successful. I would love to learn more about what you discover, if you have the energy to share an update at some point. I ran a series of experiments (with my Muse) to see how my Delta waves changed during exertion (physical or cognitive) and I noticed that a wide variety of activities (i.e. reading, talking on the phone, playing brain training games, etc.) seemed to drive a spike in Delta waves. I wish I could recreate this experiment with a proper EEG, but I'm neither a scientist or a millionaire. But I did send my data to a researcher at a University, so hopefully something might come of it. I sincerely hope they find a proper diagnostic test for ME/CFS someday soon, to validate the illness and make it easier to get help. I wish I lived in Los Angeles, because then I would check out this "Peak Brain Institute." I'm not too far away, but travel is very difficult. Anyways, thanks again for your very helpful post.

[Transformation]

Hi sleepyhobbit

I am sorry to hear you are in severe. I only have experience with it since 2020 (long covid type) - used to be bedbound, now between bedbound and housebound, although I can do short errands with an electric wheelchair. So Bell 20-30 I guess.

I just found another study that posted differences in the locations where brainwaves are different, I can post it later.

Also, ADHD persons seem to have higher delta and lower beta too. Provided the patterns are in the same locations of the brain, it might make sense to look into ADHD programs, I guess.

There are various ways for brainwave entrainment -devices that only give you feedback, so you know the right states, or devices that influence your brainwaves directly. I am too scared to try the latter, because I think the change in brainwaves might have a purpose (hibernation?). Our bodies are smart.

I am feeling much better than a year ago, but had some rather invasive treatments for blood coagulation.

Concerning the brain and nervous system, I am using low-level laser therapy, which gave me some energy, and Apollo Neuro.
I am just now able again to start some meditation and do some tai chi.
I am attaching pictures from today's tai chi session - delta quite dominant. It is a relaxing state for me, however my body is working hard while standing. I am wondering about the absolute graphs and how they usually look like.

[Transformation]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4734796/
too hard for me to understand right now..but locations are in. maybe deactivate some sensors that are not the region concerned to check.

If James is reading this: what is the minimum amount of minutes to get a good reading? I would love to incorporate that as a regular evaluation of my status (e.g. on waking, not only during meditation).

[Transformation]

see also this - maybe it really is the intent of the body to try and destress the aggravated nervous system in me/cfs patients? https://www.tryhealium.com/2022/08/26/delta-brainwaves/